More elaborate air intake mods?

[corekneelius]

so ive been searching and searching and i haven't found anything relating specifically to this topic, and i will not be surprised if it seems lame/stupid/dumb/idiotic/(whatever you want to call it) to some members but here goes...

what is known about a more elaborate airbox mod? anything?

ive got a bit of an idea that just wont leave me alone...

i cant stop thinking about adding some plumbing to the original fz6 airbox to suck up air from somewhere else, mainly towards the front, maybe even utilizing those two "scoop looking openings" on the front fairing as a starting place for some ducting leading into the airbox itself...

my questions are...anyone here know anything about pneumatic thermodynamics? (thermodynamics has always been something that i would love to truly understand in its entirety, although in the instance of the theories of thermodynamics this (understanding everything about thermodynamics) would be nearly impossible (or so i infer...) anyways on to it...i have questions about the significance of the change in temperature the air intake charge goes through in the time from cruising down the road at (for example) 70mph (@ say 90 degree Fahrenheit ambient temp) until it reaches the combustion chamber...

what i am GUESSING is the reading on my display of the temp inside the airbox is pretty much worthless (just hear me out, i am not educated in this area) due to the air intake charge traveling X distance through components that are Y temperature that are surrounded by components that are Z temperature

does this make sense? basically what i am wondering is...if ambient temp is 90f, airbox read is 100f, will lowering box temp closer to ambient temp potentially increase performance?

main question about my idea : will directing air from a cooler source (ie a cooler = source other than from directly above the motor/header) positively affect performance (even in the slightest, most trivial measure)?

secondary question : is any kind of ram air idea just too far fetched? or could it potentially be an idea that could improve performance through tuning with a pc3 (once again, even in the most trivial measure of in crease in performance)

yeah so... i think thats about it... sorry if anyone has posted on this before

-Jake

[Hellgate]

I think it would help quite a bit.

From Sport Rider: Most importantly, the level of intake pressure on the road would be relative to the velocity of the motorcycle. If the airbox were pressurized to 20mb at 150 mph, it would be correspondingly less pressurized at 120 mph and still less at 70 mph. We had no way of reproducing this effect on the dyno, but if we could show that an air pressure of, say, 20mb gave a boost of 3 bhp at a certain point in the rev range and could then relate that to real road conditions, we'd have a fair idea of what the actual power output on the road would be.

Check all 3 articles. I think you might be able to fab one up.

Oops, here's the link: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9912_ram/index.html

[corekneelius]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

I think it would help quite a bit.

From Sport Rider: [COLOR=\\"SeaGreen\\"]Most importantly, the level of intake pressure on the road would be relative to the velocity of the motorcycle. If the airbox were pressurized to 20mb at 150 mph, it would be correspondingly less pressurized at 120 mph and still less at 70 mph. We had no way of reproducing this effect on the dyno, but if we could show that an air pressure of, say, 20mb gave a boost of 3 bhp at a certain point in the rev range and could then relate that to real road conditions, we'd have a fair idea of what the actual power output on the road would be.[/color]

Check all 3 articles. I think you might be able to fab one up.

roger wilco

so long as you understand a dyno run will not be happening until new pipes pc3 kn airbox mod are complete so i wont know definite gain/loss untill post dyno

[Bo67]

Hey at least you're thinking! Some of the best inventions in the world started out as "what if" thoughts.
I'm no expert either on the subject but my concern with ductwork would be all the bugs that could wind up going down the snorkel hoses and winding up collecting on the filter over time (at least where I live). I'm ALWAYS cleaning bug carcasses out of those scoops!

[jmerch44]

I can't imagine how you would get the ductwork to fit under the tank, theres almost no room. But you sound determined and smarter than me so I say give it a shot.

[Fred]

I've been mulling this idea over in my head a bit. Years back I did some reading on what is needed for a good ram air system. Here's what I've learned.

1. The ducting needs to be very smooth on the inside with no sharp bends or rough surfaces. You want smooth (laminar) airflow for the entire distance.

2. Location of the intakes is critical. You need to find a location that sees high air pressure while riding. You could check this out by mounting a sensitive pressure gauge to the bike with a hose going to the place where you want your air scoop. Go for a ride and note the air pressure at a set speed. Compare with other locations.

3. Crosswinds can create a venturi effect across the intake opening. This will reduce the airbox pressure. (It's like blowing across the top of a beer bottle.) This is why modern ram air intakes have more than one opening, to compensate for the crosswinds. One of the original ram air bikes had a single opening and crosswinds created a dip in power that could be felt by the rider.

4. The opening needs to start small and smoothly increase in cross section as it approaches the airbox. The reason for this is that you want to smoothly decelerate the air as it approaches the airbox. This is counterintuitive at first.

The air at high speed has a lot of energy. It's flowing through a narrow pipe. As the pipe widens, the air slows down because it no longer has to flow through a narrow pipe. The wider pipe can handle the same amount of air at a slower speed.

Conservation of energy states that the kinetic energy of the air has to go somewhere. It is converted into potential energy in the form of higher air pressure.

A sudden increase in size does no good, as the airflow becomes turbulent. It needs to keep flowing smoothly to make a good transition.

Another way to look at it is by thinking about Bernouli's principle. Faster moving air has a lower pressure that slower moving air.

If the bike is moving at 70mph, than the air entering the ducting is moving at 70mph. And it's at 14.7 PSI (Atmospheric pressure.) As the duct widens it begins to slow down. Since it's slower, its pressure is higher. And high pressure is the name of the game.

So to summarize, what you need is smooth ducting from the front of the fairing, with no kinks or sharp bends, into the airbox via two ducts that increase in size as they approach the airbox.

The only way I can see to do this would be to cut holes in the frame and route ducts through them. You get into issues with weakening the frame when you do this, so plan on reinforcing the cut areas.

The fake scoops on the front of the fairing might work for ram air, but I suspect that they're too far back to work properly. Better to build all new scoops that mount below the headlights.

Once your ram air system is working, you'll most likely have to retune to take advantage of it. The stock ECU might be able to handle it OK, but don't count on it. Yamaha didn't plan on ram air with the FZ6. It may not know how to respond to pressures above one atmosphere. The MAP sensor may not even be able to read pressures above one atmosphere.

It would be a serious project to make this work. In many ways, it would be simpler to just fit a turbocharger! The plumbing is not as complex and the power returns are several orders of magnitude greater.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Fred

[pooty]

yes you are on to something. i am not a professor or mechanic. but more air has to be good. the room as stated before is the problem.

[Fred]

One other note. There's ram air, and there's a cold air intake.

A cold air intake is much simpler. You don't need all the fancy flow dynamics. You just run a smooth pipe of the right size and have it come out in fresh air that's not heated by the engine and radiator. You won't be able to pressurize your airbox. But colder air is denser, so contains more oxygen. And your bike's stock computer can see colder air and adjust for it without any need for retuning.

[bertmoog]

Very intelligent and helpful as usual, Fred. Some good food for thought.

There still doesn't appear to be any room to do the cold air intake either at least without making sharp bends and constricting airflow.

[Hellgate]

As I was doing the 4000 mile service and washing the bike today I was eyeballing how a duct or set of ducts could be routed. It looks like if the "tube" were squished enough it could be done. Now how the heck you make it I'm not sure.

While I was at O'Riley's this morning buying degreaser and I saw that they set do-it-yourself K&N like, filter charger parts. The idea is your buy the "legos" you need to whip together your own kit. Me thinks there may be a fitting or two that could be lifted from there, or fittings from the PVC plumbing section and Lowe Depot to fab up ports into the air box. Then get a thinner two to three inch length of tubing to go from the fairing openings to the ports you created in the air box.

I was reading an article last night that stated the ram air didn't make much difference until 80 to 100 mph. But as Fred stated it may help with cold air...