Nvr thought "rain" would b such a dirty word

[Keits]

The g/f was bent on saving gas and signed up for the MSF course and pushed me to do so also. Always wanted a bike...just never pursued it. We took the class May 1,3,and 4th. 3 days later found us in our local dealer, her with an '07 holdout Virago 250 and me a '07 holdout FZ6. Prior to the MSF course 3 days earlier, neither of us had rode before. She (wisely) had her bike delivered. Me (questionable wisdom) was determined to ride my baby home (the bike I mean) A friend came and picked up my car at the bike dealership and followed me home. OMG what a freakin blast!! Got home dropped off my 4 door "grocery getter" and within the next 24 hrs put 220 miles on the bike. At 50 miles, stalled her at a light...eh! it happens. But when I went to re-start her she won't turn over and the starter dies as if the battery is dying. Later found out its not recommended to jump a bike with a car but I was stranded on the side of the HWY at 9 o' clock at night. I get the bike started and make it home with no other probs.The next morning take her back to the dealership for an electrical diagnostic. Still no probs since the night before and the shop can't find anything wrong either. If youre still reading this thanx...I kno its long but I felt the need to share Anyway, to end this long story, the freak battery issue has not happened again. Its raining today and I'm going insane waiting for it to dry out so I can ride again.

HAs anyone else had something like this happen to them?
Anyone in the Delaware, South Jersey, S.E. PA or N.W. MD give me a shout sometime.

[VEGASRIDER]

It appears that several members have experieced a weak battery incident after their initial ride too, especially with the '07's. Just one note, make sure the kickstand is up, as the bike will not start with it down. You can probably find similar stories like this thread by using the search tab, which is available for members only. This is a great site for Q's and A's. However, this forum has been up for a while now so just about every technical Q's have been asked and answered. You have a lot of catching up to do.....welcome and always wear your gear. Don't forget to post some pics of your bike, even the wife's/GF bike. She should join as well, as we have several members who are married and both contribute to the forum.

[Keits]

Will do! Thanx for the welcome...........

[CanadianFZ6]

This may not have anything to do with you not be able to re-start after a stall, but... Under the clutch lever there is a plug and wire... check and make sure it is plugged in. This is often overlooked when bikes are put together at the dealer during PDI... This enables the bike to be started in gear when the clutch is pulled in. You can "bump" start the bike as well if the batt dies. Find a small hill or get someone to push (by hand , not a car... LOL)... Put the bike in second gear and drop the clutch... the bike should start.

Finally, it is ok to jump start a bike with a car... but make sure the car's engine is off...

Originally Posted by CanadianFZ6

Finally, it is ok to jump start a bike with a car... but make sure the car's engine is off...

Am I missing something? The typical charging system in cages charges at 13.8 to 14.2vdc with the engine running. Depending on the specific application the alternator (at idle speeds) could be charging at a rate of 20 amps or less depending on what systems may be on at the time. I have started many bikes using jumper cables while having the engine on. I have also used the accessory power plug or cigarette lighter to charge batteries while things are off (read as the cage ain't runnin but the circuit is complete). I have never had a problem with either.

[wrightme43]

Originally Posted by HavBlue

Am I missing something? The typical charging system in cages charges at 13.8 to 14.2vdc with the engine running. Depending on the specific application the alternator (at idle speeds) could be charging at a rate of 20 amps or less depending on what systems may be on at the time. I have started many bikes using jumper cables while having the engine on. I have also used the accessory power plug or cigarette lighter to charge batteries while things are off (read as the cage ain't runnin but the circuit is complete). I have never had a problem with either.

Yes.

Basic theory idea, for those who came in late: Generators of all types make electricity by moving a magnetic field relative to a coil of wire. The stronger the magnetic field and the faster it moves, the more electricity is generated. The moving part is usually called an armature or rotor. The stationary part is called a stator.
The typical car alternator is an excited field type. The magnetic field is created by an electromagnet in the rotor. Supply voltage is controlled by the amount of current going through the electromagnet. Most big AC generators are made this way. If an external power source is applied of a higher voltage than the regulator setpoint is applied to the system, the regulator will recognize the system voltage as being above setpoint and turn the field magnet (usually rotor) off. Result: No problem, as long as the applied voltage isn't so high as to damage anything (typically 25 V or higher on a 12V system). So you can (usually) jump start a car with another car, or a GoldWing without any problems.
Now the bad news:
Most motorcycles don't use an electromagnet to create the magnetic field. Instead ,we have a drum-shaped rotor (usually on the crankshaft) with several permanent magnets placed inside (a magneto). These magnets moving past the stator coils create the electricity we need to run the lights, charge the battery, etc. But you can't change the strength of a permanent magnet. So regulating the generator output is not a straightforward issue of turning the field magnet strength up or down.
The motorcycle voltage regulators I've seen all take the approach of shunting excess generated power to ground. This has the advantage of making sure that the voltage is the same everywhere in the system, but the disadvantage of meaning that the stator is always flowing its maximum rated supply current. This, I think, is why many motorcycles have a reputation for frying stators.
So the design of one of these regulators is completely different from a cage regulator. It has a voltage detection part, like the other regulators, but the big resistor/power transistor package has to be strong enough to carry all the possible excess power generation to ground. It handles a lot more power than the car regulator has to. It generates a lot of heat as it does this, which is why the regulator on my '85 VT1100 is finned and out in the open air--to carry off the heat before it cooks something in or around the regulator. A typical bike magneto makes 30-50 amps at max power. So the regulator is designed to dissipate a maximum of about 700 watts for short periods (this would be full power and no loads on the bike--the battery and lights are all missing). In practice, this cooks the regulator pretty fast--they don't like to dissipate more than about 200 watts for any length of time.
Now consider what happens when your moto regulator is doing a good job keeping the system at a nominal 14.1 volts when running, but the battery is weak, so you have to jump-start it on cold mornings. You hook up the bike to your Toyota with a 95 amp alternator (max output about 1400 watts). The Toyota's voltage regulator keeps *its* system at a cozy 14.3 volts when the engine is running. We now have a problem.
The cage's alternator and regulator want to maintain the system at 14.3 volts. Your bike's regulator, the instant the system is turned on, is going to try to bleed off excess voltage from the system to keep it at 14.1 volts. The car's alternator is rated for 1400 watts. The bike's regulator can dissipate a maximum of 700 for (very) short periods before it cooks itself. It's a tug of war, and the bike regulator ALWAYS loses.
Moral of the story--jump-start your bike from a non-running cage. The quiescent voltage of a car (or bike) battery is in the 13.2-13.8 volt range. The only result of this is that the full output of the bike's magneto will go into the cage and moto batteries once the bike starts. This actually reduces the load on the regulator to near zero, so it's quite happy with this state of affairs.
Corrolary: Want to reduce the load on your bike's voltage regulator? Install MORE (or brighter) lights. No kidding. Since the regulator only handles power output beyond the bike's demands, installing more demands means that the regulator does less (and is happier). The stator does the same amount of work in either case, so no problem there. Be forewarned, though, that Honda didn't exactly break the bank on copper for the wire in our bikes. It's sized to work just right with no corroded connectors and the stock loads. You need to run larger/more supply wires from the battery if you intend to use significantly more power than does the stock system.

[jamesfz6]

Originally Posted by CanadianFZ6

You can "bump" start the bike as well if the batt dies. Find a small hill or get someone to push (by hand , not a car... LOL)... Put the bike in second gear and drop the clutch... the bike should start.

Finally, it is ok to jump start a bike with a car... but make sure the car's engine is off...

I didnt think you could push start fuel injection?

[Tailgate]

I had an unpleasant surprise two nights ago. At a light and....I stalled it! (2nd time since I bought bike in Nov, 2007). I pulled in clutch lever and pressed start button but...nothing. Whaaa? Cars behind me in left hand turn lane (glad I didn't get rear ended). After 2-3 tries (and surprise because I had started it this way before with clutch in) I quickly shifted into neutral and, voila (do you know Fr.?) varoom! I kept on thinking the rest of evening if my wiring mods had f'ed up something but I kept on thinking "No, but warranty service may be not be a slam dunk because of wiring mods??." Then, just about home waiting for a green, I think to myself "what's that electrical connector at the clutch side??" I touch it and, Ah hah! It was loose...obviously this was why I coudn't start earlier with the clutch in. Sure enough, it had worked loose. It probably had never been inserted fully during set-up. Case solved.

[FZ6inNH]

Originally Posted by Tailgate

I had an unpleasant surprise two nights ago. At a light and....I stalled it! (2nd time since I bought bike in Nov, 2007). I pulled in clutch lever and pressed start button but...nothing. Whaaa? Cars behind me in left hand turn lane (glad I didn't get rear ended). After 2-3 tries (and surprise because I had started it this way before with clutch in) I quickly shifted into neutral and, voila (do you know Fr.?) varoom! I kept on thinking the rest of evening if my wiring mods had f'ed up something but I kept on thinking "No, but warranty service may be not be a slam dunk because of wiring mods??." Then, just about home waiting for a green, I think to myself "what's that electrical connector at the clutch side??" I touch it and, Ah hah! It was loose...obviously this was why I coudn't start earlier with the clutch in. Sure enough, it had worked loose. It probably had never been inserted fully during set-up. Case solved.

Perhaps a good thing for ALL to try is to go out, put the bike in gear and try to start with the clutch pulled. Troubleshoot this now before you're on the road and have a problem rather than find out in a traffic situation. I'm going to since mine is new. I haven't stalled it yet so I'm unsure about the connection. I'll BE sure to unplug and plug it so I'm confident it is connected properly.

Thanks all for, yet again, GREAT info! This site !!!

Originally Posted by FZ6inNH

Perhaps a good thing for ALL to try is to go out, put the bike in gear and try to start with the clutch pulled. Troubleshoot this now before you're on the road and have a problem rather than find out in a traffic situation. I'm going to since mine is new. I haven't stalled it yet so I'm unsure about the connection. I'll BE sure to unplug and plug it so I'm confident it is connected properly.

Thanks all for, yet again, GREAT info! This site !!!

Absolutely. You may also want to kill it while you are just riding along so you can get a feel for how things work in a restart while it is dead and on the move. This became an issue for folks with the early models that had the TPS issues as the bike would die while on the move at slow speeds. So, when it does happen whatcha gonna do?