Erik Buell Racing is up and running - 1190RR revealed

[Wavex]

Isn't the stock BMW around 200HP... so the tuned WSB BMW should crank a good chunk more...

[Hellgate]

Lots of skuttle-butt around those numbers. "Bike" magazine got 183.7 hp.

Not to poo-poo the bike at all btw, it is an outstanding bike, just the dyno run that produced the numbers has been questioned by many people/places and things.

Keith Code posted up on the Aprilia site abou the bike, he love it: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...=196836&page=6

But this thread IS about the 1190RR.

[Speedygonzales]

Originally Posted by Wavex

What do you base that statement on? What I've read was that performance is very similar, but with less torsional load (since it's mounted on the rim) and much less weight (since there's only one disk/caliper).

That's also why other ppl are slowly looking into similar designs... here is an example:
Brakko Combined Wheel Brake System



HP is not everything... WSBK bikes make more HP than MotoGP bikes, but MotoGP bikes are faster around a track (more HP doesn't automatically mean more performance)... torque peak number and torque curves are just as important... just like weight etc....

I rode the 1125 for half a day and found the front brake not so good. They have good stopping power, but no good feel. A modern radial setup gives a lot more feel with braking imho.

And MotoGP have more power, weigh less and have a better chassis ... don't see the point of the comparison.

If the Buell is going to ride in the superbike class, you should compare it with other superbikes. And I know hp isn't everything. And I certanly don't think 185whp isn't a lot, cause it is. And the torque and curves are very important as well, thats true.
But the riders who ride @ that level will certanly feel the 15hp difference ... when everybody is so good and the bikes are so good, the little differences makes you a winner or a loser ...

[Speedygonzales]

A magazine over here did a dyno with the s1000rr ... 183whp ...
That bike is insane ...

[Hellgate]

The brakes are very different between the bike you rode and the 1190. The 1190 used a Nissin radial brake M/C, the 6mm thick rotor (instead of the 5mm that is stock) and different brake pads.

I'm using the EBC HH pads and the feel is night an day from stock. Also, what year did you ride? For the first 6 months of '08 they used a pad that was so-so, then they updated to a different, better feeling pad.

I can say I like 1125 brake much better than the R6 brakes on my old FZ.

As far as HP I'm not aware of any magazines that have ridden a 1190, only the 1125RR. John Ulrich wrote a very good article on the RR and he stated it was down about 15 hp from AMA Superbikes, but was a very good handling bike once he set it up. The 1190 solves pretty much any hp issues.

As far a winners and loser, it 99.9% rider. Put Spies or Haga on a tricycle and they'll still win; a great rider finds a way to win.

Originally Posted by Speedygonzales

I rode the 1125 for half a day and found the front brake not so good. They have good stopping power, but no good feel. A modern radial setup gives a lot more feel with braking imho.

And MotoGP have more power, weigh less and have a better chassis ... don't see the point of the comparison.

If the Buell is going to ride in the superbike class, you should compare it with other superbikes. And I know hp isn't everything. And I certanly don't think 185whp isn't a lot, cause it is. And the torque and curves are very important as well, thats true.
But the riders who ride @ that level will certanly feel the 15hp difference ... when everybody is so good and the bikes are so good, the little differences makes you a winner or a loser ...

[Speedygonzales]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

The brakes are very different between the bike you rode and the 1190. The 1190 used a Nissin radial brake M/C, the 6mm thick rotor (instead of the 5mm that is stock) and different brake pads.

I'm using the EBC HH pads and the feel is night an day from stock. Also, what year did you ride? For the first 6 months of '08 they used a pad that was so-so, then they updated to a different, better feeling pad.

I can say I like 1125 brake much better than the R6 brakes on my old FZ.

As far as HP I'm not aware of any magazines that have ridden a 1190, only the 1125RR. John Ulrich wrote a very good article on the RR and he stated it was down about 15 hp from AMA Superbikes, but was a very good handling bike once he set it up. The 1190 solves pretty much any hp issues.

As far a winners and loser, it 99.9% rider. Put Spies or Haga on a tricycle and they'll still win; a great rider finds a way to win.

A good radial MC wil indeed help a lot with the feel I guess. The bike I rode was an '08 ... I liked the bike, I liked the torque a lot! And the gearbox was super smooth compared to my FZ6.

The rider is quite important in motobike racing. And I would really like to see an 1190 running with the top 10 in wsbk ... that would be awsome .

I just got a feeling with eric buell that he's just a bit stubburn when it comes to his "inventions". But hey ... if everybody would just go with the flow, there would be no real progress any more.

[Wavex]

Originally Posted by Speedygonzales

I rode the 1125 for half a day and found the front brake not so good. They have good stopping power, but no good feel. A modern radial setup gives a lot more feel with braking imho.

from "no way as good as radial" to "not a good feel"...

OK!

Originally Posted by Speedygonzales

And MotoGP have more power, weigh less and have a better chassis ... don't see the point of the comparison.

Could you please provide the data that allows you to state that MotoGP bikes "have more power" (HP/torque) than WSBK bikes? I am curious since I've always thought it was the opposite.
My point which you failed to understand was that even if all WSBK bikes all made 200HP except for the Buell, it doesn't mean the Buell will be slower on the track... for all you know that Buell has double the torque and is half the weight of all other WSBK bikes... I involved MotoGP to illustrate that point. Throwing HP numbers out there (like you originally did) without considering a lot of other points makes little sense imo.

Originally Posted by Speedygonzales

If the Buell is going to ride in the superbike class, you should compare it with other superbikes. And I know hp isn't everything. And I certanly don't think 185whp isn't a lot, cause it is. And the torque and curves are very important as well, thats true.
But the riders who ride @ that level will certanly feel the 15hp difference ... when everybody is so good and the bikes are so good, the little differences makes you a winner or a loser ...

hmmm No, sorry. You cannot look at HP alone and tell me the Buell won't be competitive because it -supposedly- has 15HP less than other bikes... and btw, where do you get the 200RWHP number for WSBK bikes?

[Hellgate]

Originally Posted by Speedygonzales

A good radial MC wil indeed help a lot with the feel I guess. The bike I rode was an '08 ... I liked the bike, I liked the torque a lot! And the gearbox was super smooth compared to my FZ6.

The rider is quite important in motobike racing. And I would really like to see an 1190 running with the top 10 in wsbk ... that would be awsome .

I just got a feeling with eric buell that he's just a bit stubburn when it comes to his "inventions". But hey ... if everybody would just go with the flow, there would be no real progress any more.

You are correct about stubborn. The mechanic at the local HD shop I go to was complaining that the factory wouldn't listen to concerns that the field was telling them. They only voiced, "Erik" and didn't listen to reason.

Did the bike you ride have the most recent flash? For the '08 R it is the 062. With that flash the bike runs very good. Also ask the owner to try a different pad; EBC or Lyndall are both very good, have much more initial bite, and provide better feel.

I have a set of EBC pads for the rear brake but I've not installed them yet. I think the rear brake is terrible. Completely numb and wooden feeling. I'm hoping the EBCs help.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

Lots of skuttle-butt around those numbers. "Bike" magazine got 183.7 hp.

Not to poo-poo the bike at all btw, it is an outstanding bike, just the dyno run that produced the numbers has been questioned by many people/places and things.

That's 183.7 bhp at the rear wheel, which is about 20 bhp more than the big four Jap manufacturers. 192 is at the crank. WSBK bikes are supposed to make around 200 bhp at the rear wheel, which is not unlikely considering the mods that are made to them.

Originally Posted by Hellgate

But this thread IS about the 1190RR.

You're right, sorry! :P

[Speedygonzales]

Originally Posted by Wavex

from "no way as good as radial" to "not a good feel"...

OK!



Could you please provide the data that allows you to state that MotoGP bikes "have more power" (HP/torque) than WSBK bikes? I am curious since I've always thought it was the opposite.
My point which you failed to understand was that even if all WSBK bikes all made 200HP except for the Buell, it doesn't mean the Buell will be slower on the track... for all you know that Buell has double the torque and is half the weight of all other WSBK bikes... I involved MotoGP to illustrate that point. Throwing HP numbers out there (like you originally did) without considering a lot of other points makes little sense imo.



hmmm No, sorry. You cannot look at HP alone and tell me the Buell won't be competitive because it -supposedly- has 15HP less than other bikes... and btw, where do you get the 200RWHP number for WSBK bikes?

Ok man you win ... I'm done ... pfjew ... I'm an idiot, you know best ...