What we have accomplished in Iraq

[FancaR]

Originally Posted by formula154

You are an amusing fellow.
Is that why they built a wall around Berlin, to keep all those gratefull Berliner's from excaping and shot the ones who went over the wall any way?

I wish to notice, this fkn wall has been constructed by the initiative of the German Democratic Republic. It is not necessary to mould all in one lump.

Originally Posted by formula154

Is that why the Russians sent tanks into the Check Republic in 1968, because the Checks were so greatfull?

Yes you probably itself know what for there tanks were necessary. Children have already grown. Have wanted to become the independent state
Now your government walks twice into the same water in the same Czechia with the BMD . The same.

Such there was an ideology from the USSR. Me amuses that you so argue on it, as though lived in the union, or near. At each mention of Russia, at you only one association, is monsters who kill all and build round a wall. And any justification for murders by the American govrement, stick with a muzzle into all dung which was made by communists by the country not existing here already twenty years lol

Originally Posted by formula154

The enslavement was expressed by risking being shot and having their countries invaded by Russian tanks in order to be free of Russian domination. Every eastern Europen country that has gotten free from russian domination has fled freely to the west and requested to be admitted to NATO. Georgia has requested admission to NATO for the same reason as the rest of the other countries, that is for protection from the Russians that you believe they are all so greatfull to for enslaving them. America puts up fences to keep peope out. Russia puts up fences to keep their greatfull subjects from excaping. You need to stop reading the party propaganda news papers and get in touch with a little reality.

In Georgia now the ashle rule , it is not discussed. You do not forget that the governments of these countries speak is not same opinion by the people in these countries. That is told by Mr. Saakashvilli is not that people in its country for example speak. It is all the policy, grants of the United States feed him, he says, that is necessary the connected staff. It is normal, I understand it. Business. About party to the newspaper it is funny. There is no iron wall. There is an Internet, go where you want, talk to whom you want.
The pro-Russian policy of the countries of the NATO - here is propagation. What power would not be in Russia, democracy, communism, Russia always will be bad. The enemy is necessary, the bad guy is necessary. Otherwise there will be no justification for many disgraces. i understand y )

CCCP Afganistan = US Afganistan now & US IRAQ & US Viet Nam etc etc etc...

[FancaR]

Originally Posted by formula154

((((1) pre-war iraq is no danger to the US. i think we can all agree on this.))))

I don't agree. Hussain was a threat to the stability of the whole region. That is a danger to every one in the oil using world.

((((((3) post-war regarding iraq being a front on terrorism. it BECAME that. it never was that originally.))))))))))

Before that terrorist focused on Europe and America.Now they are focused on Iraq. If the Europen's had any sense they would thank us for taking the heat off their own countries.


(((((((also the fact that iraq is a hotbed of terrorism is america's own fault.))))

That is a lie!! The fact that people chose to blow up cars and trucks which kills women and children is not the fault of the US.The US went there after 5000 civilians were killed in America not before. It is very interesting to see that you have so much sympathy and compation for the poor terrorist who slaughter inocent women and children and so little for the American military, that dies trying to protect those women and children from being randomly slaughtered by those poor terrorist.

So after these words you say me, that I communistic zombies? you justify for acts by which you did not do, and did your government. that is silly. I admit that the foreign policy by the USSR was full dung. (But people in the сссp lived goood. I was born in this country, i know what i talking about , unlike you). I admit mistakes by my govrement, and I criticise the government, because they donkeys . You protect. Democraсy? Iraq is an mistake,the same mistake as Vietnam. The mistake which has again made active duty unpopular in your country.

[FancaR]

Originally Posted by lonesoldier84

...but the fact remains that a western style democracy simply DOES NOT WORK in MANY places around the world. until you create social systems and structures and a society which will be able to function well in a democracy....there is no freedom. there is only the status quo under the guise of democracy.

Originally Posted by lonesoldier84

------------) I meant a threat to the US in terms of national security. you have proven my point that iraq was a threat not because of its plans of martial conquest but because of the sensitivity to the economy of the US due to saddam's proximity to massive oil reserves in kuwait and saudi as well as those under iraqi soil.

-------------) valid enough point. except in one regard (which serves to illustrate my point)....the US could essentially have decided where the front on the war on terror would be...it did not have to be iraq. it is iraq only as a side-effect of the desire and action of the US to try to set up a sphere of influence in the middle-east as well as to keep the oil flowing.

--------------) I should have underlined or caps locked the word \\"hotbed\\" so it more accurately represents what it was that i was trying to get across. iraq became a hotbed of terrorism due to the american involvement there. the rest of my point regarding that still stands.

+1

[lonesoldier84]

Originally Posted by FancaR

+1

lol 24 posts so far and more than half of them double posts you my hero.

[lonesoldier84]

really, you are.

[FancaR]

OK

now if this is going to be a thread about a Russia and Georgia I would like it if we started a new one.


This one is supposed to be about Iraq. Quite a bit has actually been acomplished there.

I do not think for one second that our Government is wonderful.
However Saddams Government is no more.
The state sponsored rape and torture rooms are no more.

I know the argument that statement will bring so to nip that in the bud.
Womens underwear on your head is a whole lot different than having your fingernails pulled out with pliers, watching your children be raped, then murdered, and then being murdered. Two quite different things.

Iraq will have problems.
Yesterday there was a protest of Arab unity with Palistine against the Israeli air strikes. A suicide bomber killed himself and others there. That is not the action of someone with a "bloodfued" with the Americans. That is terrorism against the Iraqi people.

Anyway if you want to discuss Iraq, please do. If you want to discuss Georgia vs. Russia please start a thread.

If you want to compare the failings of Russia, the United States, and whoever else please start a thread about that.

Personally I like Russia and the russian people. Yes there are evil men there, just the same as there are here, and in Canada and everywhere else.
I do know that no one on this board is personally responsible for what thier respective government carries out.

[lonesoldier84]

i agree a lot has been accomplished in iraq. i just think a lot more could have been done with the money and manpower that was thrown at it. was it a waste? i dont think so as it did raise the standard of loving for a country (even tho that standard of living was low only because of previous american economic sanctions....and that is not counting the people murdered by saddam obviously their people will be better off now for pending any civil war if that doe sin fact happen).

my only point was that if they had spent that money gaining a sturdy and unshakeable foothold of afghanistan and then REALLY building that country up....think of what they could have done to the social structure in afghanistan with the truly ludicrous amount of money spent on fighting in iraq. once that was done the same way the iron curtain eventually was weakened by the spread of capitalism and hope so too could progress have been made in other middle eastern countries....but instead they went for the oil.......

[formula154]

There is NO DOUBT that Hussain had weapons of mass destruction because he used them to kill many thousands of Kurd men women children dogs cats goats and any thing else that didn't get away in time. There is no doubt that the UN passed a resolution requiring inspections for weapons of mass destruction because he had them and used them. There is no doubt that he refused to alow inspections which would have shown he didn't have them. There is no doubt that the Saudi's and Kawati's believed it enough to alow the US to use their soil to invade another Arab country. With all of that people like lonesoldier continue to say that the US lied about weapons of mass destruction.We made the whole thing up. I don't know how he explains all those dead Kurds. He says the US is responsible for terrorism. The US brought it on them selves. There are people who say the US knocked down the twin towers themselves. That Russian thinks the Germans decided to build a wall around Berlin and kill their own relitives. He thinks the east Europens were gratefull to the Russians for enslaving them. The fact that they built a wall and killed any one trying to get away and sent tanks to invade and kill people who didn't toe the Russian line doesn't matter. The world is full of people and they believe what they want to believe. If the walls and the tanks and the thousands of dead Kurds and the skud missils landing in Iseral, Saudi Arabia and Kawiat, and the UN resolutions requiring inspections and the pentagon and twin towers isn't enough for them then i don't guess there is any point in wasting time trying to talk to them about it. Yes this thread has turned into a giant raging fight about Georgia it's sad that there is only one person in the raging fight. I'm sure the Georgians are gratefull to the Russians for killing them. What we have accomplished in Iraq,if nothing else, is to prove that Iraq doesn't have nukes or stores of chemical weapons stock piled. For that , every one in the region and the whole world should be grateful and sleep easier at night. Of course they aren't greatful but what can you expect from people?

[formula154]

((((((So after these words you say me, that I communistic zombies?))))))


I am pretty sure that I didn't call anyone a "communistic zombies?"